Is everyone okay?

[crimsonson]

Moviestuff

My comments regarding your poem was made remove from you later commentary because like a movie we do not put footnotes with them. If you needed to add explaination then you knew about how important that distinction? Why did you not just implemented in the poetry, since its obvious that some social responsibility is so important right now.

Second, regarding that footage of kids celebrating. How many kids did you see? 10? 15? Hmmm... How many Muslims are there in the world? If I see 5 white kids beating a black gay man to death can I assume that all white guys are homophobic and racist? That footage was played by the media over and over again. Some OBVIOUSLY made some note that it was remote incident and is not reflective of the international Muslim community. Some may have not made those disclaimers. Did you ignore those disclaimers or they did not mention that fact?

Regarding Matt Pacini's India comment?
So are you also saying that India is in Middle East? Better check your atlas again. Second, check an encyclopedia for the fact that INDIA is A HINDU NATION ruled by a mostly Hindu goverment. For crying out loud make that distinction since India or its citizen is no way affiliated to this attack. Thus no 'apology' is needed. Making one only proves your ignorance about Hindus and Muslim. If you guys make an assumption about Arabs and Muslim at least make sure you have the right country and people.

"I feel what I feel and I can't do anything about it. "

How about family and children being rocketed to death by American made technology and pilots trained by Americans sent by politicians with full knowledge the primary use of that? Can they do the same?

Again, I am a New Yorker. For the past two days I have friends and collegues talking about friends, families and collegues missing or barely escaping the horror. I am as angry frustrated as anyone. But like all New Yorkers I am proud of the ethnic diversity and tolerance of this city. I will not blemish that character and the memory of those passed away about this city by letting terrorist drive me down to racial hatred by making assumptions. Its frightening when I have to call friends and ask them to becareful because they are Arabs! Or ask them if their stores and other business still intact. Please, Please, Please I beg of you and wait. No judgments right now!!!

WE ARE A CITY OF TOLERANCE. IF WE LET ONE OF OUR GREATEST STRENGTH DISAPPEAR THAT WOULD TURN NYC TO JUST ANOTHER CITY! THE IRONY WOULD BE TOO MUCH!

------------------


[This message has been edited by crimsonson (edited September 13, 2001).]

[Alex]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MovieStuff:
Previously, crimsonson wrote:

Alex..... What can I say? You drive a car by choice. You seem to think that because it's old it makes you somehow immune to introspection and takes you out of the responsibility loop for all the things you complained about. I expected no less from you, though. At least you're predictable. Still, I am glad that you're safe, as is everyone else on this board, it would seem.

Roger

[This message has been edited by MovieStuff (edited September 13, 2001).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

More of that "tone" you emit toward me.

Matt ASKS me what I have done to curb my energy needs, I respond, then you ridicule.

Basically, I've never bought a new car in my life, which as Matt himself pointed out, takes a significant amount of energy and resources to produce.

The age of the youngest car of the 3 I have owned in my life was 8 years old when I bought it.

I took somebody else's second hand car, and have kept the cars going for another 12 years.

I'm sure I get looks of "subliminial contempt" for not driving a shiny newer car, then I get it from you for mentioning that I drive older cars as if means nothing.

That is entirely the problem in this country, Roger, we treat the consumption of energy as if it is our right with no consequences, like free running water.

Your derisive scorn at what I've tried to do to use less resources just shows how little value America places on it's use of Energy.

We have 5% of the population, but use 25% of the World's Resources.

-Alex



------------------

[MikeBrantley]

Thank you, Trevor, for posting the Tribute to America transcript. I would like to shake the hand of that fine citizen of Canada.

As a matter of fact, I think I will try to find a way to send a note of thanks to Mr. Sinclair. His words are appreciated by this American.

------------------
--Mike Brantley

[This message has been edited by MikeBrantley (edited September 13, 2001).]

[JerryV]

Alex Wrote"Our country recently thumbed it's nose at the Kyoto treaty, a treaty signed by 180 other countries."

This is not true. Most countries have not signed this treaty. Don't blindly listen to those tree huggers that would have you believe America is a benevolent monsster. America leads the world in cleaning up pollutants. The treaty was not a good thing. Do a little more research.

I resent your America bashing. True, we consume more resources, but we also produce, by far, much more than other countries.

"And frankly, do you really think our corporations take no for an answer when they want a resource found elsewhere in the world."

The corporations pay big bucks for the rights to develope and retrieve resources. It increases the standard of living in those countries that sell to the US and western countries. Do you actually think we send the military to convince nations to sell us oil and other goods?

Mattias wrote"do you think he will like americans more, or less, if his house gets blown up by an american "revenge operation?"

Maybe he won't like us, but perhaps he will think twice before harboring or supporting terrorists, or dancing in the streets in celebration of mass murder of Americans. And I really don't think we will be bombing his house.

------------------

[MovieStuff]

Alex-

As usual, you miss the point. You don't HAVE to drive ANY car, if you were really committed to your "cause" and "beliefs". The fact that it is an old car means nothing. You drive your car and use up gas and pollute and consume resources just like everyone else. Hell, Super 8 film doesn't grown on trees, dude. And K40 is one of the most toxic development processes there is. You still shoot it. If fact, you LOVE it. The plastic in your keyboard and the bezel and casing on the very computer you use to post your hipocrisy are products of the petrochemical industry.

Why don't you just ride a bike to get around or use a pencil and paper to communicate with instead of supporting the evil and energy consuming coporate monster you speak so ill of? Because you like having these modern conveniences and can't live with out them. Beyond that, there is nothing preventing you from giving all that up at this very moment. Toss that computer out the window! Stop using electricity! But my bet is, we'll hear more posts from you, and more and more and more as you beat on the very plastic keys that were provided by the industry you condemn and will post that message using more than your share of electricity, since you've been posting here so long; of which you are so very proud and quick to point out. The medium is the message, homeboy, and you can't condemn the provider of the medium you use to preach.

Roger

[This message has been edited by MovieStuff (edited September 13, 2001).]

[MikeBrantley]

Trevor, obviously I did not know this when I posted my earlier message, but Gordon Sinclair is deceased. He died in 1984, I think, and his words of tribute for Americans were written in 1973.

Nevertheless, they are poignant today. Thanks for posting them.


------------------
--Mike Brantley

[Matt Pacini]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by crimsonson:
[B]Matt P:
"You just did, since India is a MOSTLY HINDU Nation, is in south Asia (not Middle East) and has nothing to do with WTC. "

Duuhhhhh!!!!
I know that, my point is that many Americans look at anyone who even LOOKS middle eastern, and condemn them.
My other middle eastern friends are lebanese moslems, Egyptians etc.
There are many different middle eastern cultures, and they are quite different from each other, some speak different languages, different religeons, etc.
My point was that they all get lumped together and railed against by ignorant Americans, so I wasn't saying I was trying to find "REAL" middle eastern people to eat at their restaunts, but in fact people who almost have to stay in their houses, every time we get into some situation with any middle eastern country.
Hell, I know a guy from Fiji who has to put up with this crap.
It's depressing.
I hope Bush does visit a mosque somewhere, to show that all of these people are not our enemies, because I, myself, having gotten to know these people very well (Lebaneze, specifically) have a lot of respect for them.
They're decent people.
Again, my point is missed. Is it me?
I dunno...

Matt Pacini

------------------

[Alex]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MovieStuff:
Alex-

As usual, you miss the point. You don't HAVE to drive ANY car, if you were really committed to your "cause" and "beliefs". The fact that it is an old car means nothing. You drive your car and use up gas and pollute and consume resources just like everyone else. Hell, Super 8 film doesn't grown on trees, dude. And K40 is one of the most toxic development processes there is. You still shoot it. If fact, you LOVE it. The plastic in your keyboard and the bezel and casing on the very computer you use to post your hipocrisy are products of the petrochemical industry.

Why don't you just ride a bike to get around or use a pencil and paper to communicate with instead of supporting the evil and energy consuming coporate monster you speak so ill of? Because you like having these modern conveniences and can't live with out them. Beyond that, there is nothing preventing you from giving all that up at this very moment. Toss that computer out the window! Stop using electricity! But my bet is, we'll hear more posts from you, and more and more and more as you beat on the very plastic keys that were provided by the industry you condemn and will post that message using more than your share of electricity, since you've been posting here so long; of which you are so very proud and quick to point out. The medium is the message, homeboy, and you can't condemn the provider of the medium you use to preach.

Roger

[This message has been edited by MovieStuff (edited September 13, 2001).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


First of all, "the Love or Leave it" argument of "You just go away while I continue to waste whatever I want".... is a manipulative argument and misses the point.

I'm not just gonna go away so others can continue to blindly waste whatever they want.

Secondly, WASTEFUL use of resources is my point. Matt himself said everytime a new car is made........a lot of resources are used to make the car....

So obviously, sqeezing everything out of what has already been created until it's dry, is much more desireable than creating a new one, unless the new one is more energy efficient than the one already in use.

I have ridden a bus, walked, and taken a bike....I don't ride a bike anymore because I don't trust my fellow man enough to not hit me while they talk on a cell phone or are drunk out of their mind....

and I certainly don't trust the insurance companies to take care of me were I to be injured by a distracted driver..they'd have some loophole to avoid paying me....afterall, we gotta pay them shareholders.

Corporate America, love it or leave it, right Roger, just like those who say, The Kurran, never leave home without it,

You guys are twin bros on opposite ends of the world, that's why you hate each other so much.

Don't confuse America with Corporate America....

The American politicians want us all to band together, to hide the thieving corporate scoundrels among the really great people of this country...

Just the same way the religious fanatics try to hide among their own people.

-Alex


------------------

[penshuffler]

I take objection to this:

> I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced
> to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name
> me even one time when someone else raced to the
> Americans in trouble?
>

My uncle died in Vietnam fighting in America's war, because we are your allies. My brother risked his life in your Gulf war because we are your allies. Another Uncle is a firefighter in NSW and went last year to risk his life helping you fight your fires, because we are your friends.

I am getting really pissed off with the American 'holier than thou', 'better than everyone else in the world' attitude.

There's a lot of good in America, like there is in EVERY OTHER COUNTRY. I've been to the US four times, and I love it there, so don't call me anti-American. This week I've been a New Yorker ever since I saw that plane fly into the WTC, and I'm as horrified and sickened as everyone else.

This nationalistic, gung-ho, rednecked attitude I'm seeing, tarring whole nations and races with the same brush is extremely dangerous. Don't ever forget the bastards who did these atrocities are terrorists. If they're muslim extremists, they're the Muslim world's equivalent of the Ku Klux Klan in the Christian world.

As for the Kyoto protocol and global warming being a hoax. I'm amazed Matt. I really thought you were intelligent. You can't possibly have looked into it.


------------------

[MovieStuff]

Previously, Alex wrote:

"First of all, "the Love or Leave it" argument of "You just go away while I continue to waste whatever I want".... is a manipulative argument and misses the point."

You're exactly right. Which is why I never said that. The fact is that you have no comeback or logical response for the fact that you are guilty of the very waste and selfish lifestyle that you condemn others for. Typical and classic "Alex-speak" where you preach a sermon that says "don't do as I do, do as I say."

Predictable. And you wonder why you have a credibility issue?

Roger